Matt Skallerud began his career in aerospace engineering before transitioning to the LGBT media sector in 1995 with the launch of his website. Initially a directory for LGBT resources, it evolved into a comprehensive portal offering content, personals, and message boards, attracting significant user engagement. The emergence of venture-backed platforms like Gay.com and PlanetOut validated the market's potential.
In 2006, Skallerud sold his company to Here Media, which subsequently acquired other major LGBT media outlets like Out Magazine and The Advocate. After leaving Here Media, he founded Pink Media (originally Pink Banana Media) to specialize in digital marketing for businesses targeting the LGBT community. His work adapted from early banner ads and email campaigns to mobile apps, video, and social media strategies, which he identifies as the dominant way companies now reach the community.
He highlighted the historical recognition of the LGBT community's spending power, gaining traction in the early 1990s through organizations like IGLTA, Community Marketing, and Witeck-Combs. This quantification provided ammunition for advocates to push for increased marketing efforts and internal corporate recognition (e.g., HR initiatives). Early adopters like Absolut Vodka, American Airlines, and Montreal were pioneers in targeting the LGBT market. The concept of "DINKS" (Dual Income, No Kids) was a significant factor, representing disposable income, though Skallerud noted this was a stereotype, as many LGBT individuals are parents.
However, a decline in corporate engagement with Pride events has been observed post-COVID-19. This shift was largely influenced by controversies surrounding brands like Anheuser-Busch (Dylan Mulvaney) and Target in 2023, leading to a "double boycott" phenomenon and a retreat from previous commitments to the LGBTQ+ community. The election of Trump in 2024 and the "war on DEI" further exacerbated this trend, causing many companies to pull back.
Despite these challenges, Skallerud expressed optimism about future opportunities. He noted that small businesses are beginning to fill the void left by larger corporations, potentially transforming community dynamics and making Pride less corporate-driven. He also pointed to positive local developments, such as new cities hosting Pride and visible signs of acceptance.
The discussion touched on internal divisions within the LGBT community, with Skallerud emphasizing that it is not as monolithic as often perceived. He noted that gay men and lesbians are distinct marketplaces and that a segment of the gay male community holds conservative views, even expressing them on hookup apps. The transgender community, despite being included in broader LGBT movements, has faced unique struggles and is currently a primary target for right-wing political agendas. Skallerud stressed the importance of not abandoning the transgender community.
Matt Skallerud's Journey into LGBT Media
Seasons of Pride: Give me a little bit of background on how you got into this space. I know you had a previous life, so maybe give me some history.
Matt Skallerud: I'll try to keep it short. Once upon a time, I was an engineer. I got my degree in aerospace engineering and started my career on the technical side of things. After a few years, I got bored and transitioned into sales for the products I was engineering. That carried me through until 1995, when I discovered this "internet thing." My comfort with technology and programming, combined with my sales experience, allowed me to translate those two worlds.
When the internet emerged, I started dabbling and created a gay website, thinking everyone else would too, but they didn't. We grew it from those early stages into a real business and became one of the more prominent sites.
Seasons of Pride: Were you out professionally before then?
Matt Skallerud: Yes and no. My profession was in manufacturing, so it had nothing to do with it. But they knew I was gay, for better or worse. After a short period, I quit that day job, went into this full-time, and never looked back.
Seasons of Pride: What was the focus of the website at the time?
Matt Skallerud: At the time, it was before Google or Yahoo. There were LGBT resources online, but they were hard to find. So, we first tried to create a website that made it easy for people to find things, whether it was travel or technology. It was almost more like a directory at the beginning.
It didn't take long before we started doing the website for Genre Magazine and other folks in the LGBT media space, integrating that content into our site. The site then morphed into what they called a "portal." We had content, personals, message boards—all sorts of features combined into an online space where people would spend about an hour if they came on during the day. Over time, we were lucky to keep them for a few minutes.
Seasons of Pride: And this was before the whole Gay.com and that sort of blitz?
Matt Skallerud: Yes. We started in May 1995. PlanetOut started around September of that year. I remember reading a magazine article about their launch. That really validated all the "crazy stuff" we had been doing that summer because we weren't sure if there was truly a market for this. But when a venture capitalist-funded organization jumped into the same space, we realized we were onto something. Gay.com was purely a Java-based chat trying to emulate what was happening on America Online, and they really kicked in around 1997, about two years later.
Seasons of Pride: And so, they were venture-backed, huge, went public, and then imploded. What happened there?
Matt Skallerud: They also merged with K.com along the way. A lot was going on, but it ties into when we sold our company in 2006 to Here Media. Here Media then acquired K.com, PlanetOut, Out Magazine, and The Advocate. They wanted to bring all national LGBT media under one roof. When they did that, things started to change because they didn't need all these different websites. They consolidated to bring more harmony with their print operations. If you fast-forward to today, Out.com and Advocate.com are still going strong, but the print side has significantly receded as the internet has continued to dominate.
Pink Media and the LGBT Market
Seasons of Pride: And so, your business, if I'm correct, has been to help corporate folks navigate the LGBT market. Tell us a little bit about that.
Matt Skallerud: Yeah, when we sold, I got bored at Here Media. I'm not sure they even knew what to do with me. I started Pink Media, originally Pink Banana Media. The idea was simple: I didn't want to recreate Gay Wired. I wanted to focus on the parts I enjoyed most, which was working with companies to figure out how to reach and target the LGBT community online. Back then, it was primarily banner ads and email campaigns. Between then and now, everything has evolved into mobile apps, video, and especially social media targeting, which has become the dominant way companies reach our community today.
Seasons of Pride: Yeah, you just jumped through like, what, 20 or 30 years? Let's step back a bit because there's too much to gloss over. When did people start to realize that the LGBT community is a significant spending force with substantial buying power?
Matt Skallerud: I felt like I had a front-row seat to watch a lot of this happen. It began in the early 90s with organizations like IGLTA already having started a few years prior. Then Community Marketing, based in San Francisco, took it to the next level, starting to quantify the marketplace through surveys, saying, "This is who we are; this is our spending power."
The organization out of DC, Witeck-Combs, with Bob Witeck and his team, took that quantification even higher, providing nationwide numbers, our spending power, and so forth. They gave companies and individuals the ammunition they needed to spearhead LGBT outreach or justify internal HR recognition. The marketplace grew over time. Conferences emerged where people could learn more about us. Of course, society as a whole has become more accepting of the LGBT community over the last 30 years, and the online world perhaps contributed to that.
Seasons of Pride: Yeah, I mean, we saw the emergence of NGLCC (National LGBT Chamber of Commerce) and local chapters. So, just to sort of remind us, why is the spending power so important to our community?
Matt Skallerud: Well, I guess it's important to us because, in some ways, it's validation. It gives us something quantifiable to present and say, "Yes, considering our history of being discriminated against, we do have value, and here we are." Not everyone cares or wants to know we're part of this marketplace, but for us, it was about validation.
On the other side, I would say it empowered LGBT pioneers or champions within companies. They could tell their marketing departments, "Look, I've been telling you our community has spending power, they're loyal, and if you advertise to them, they will stick with you." They started asking for money to attend Pride festivals, and it grew to a point where companies began buying advertising and marketing themselves. Pioneers like Absolut Vodka, American Airlines, and the destination of Montreal were doing this before anyone else.
Seasons of Pride: And I'm sort of, you know, what kind of comes to mind is this idea of the "DINKS" (Dual Income, No Kids). And like, because that, you know, a lot of the community falls under that category. And, you know, the brands that you mentioned sort of align with that, right? So you have travel, you have entertainment, you know, so we, you know, very much aligned with the DINKS, right? People love that whole double income, no kids.
Matt Skallerud: And, you know, we were able to leverage that spending power. It's a stereotype, but we didn't have to buy diapers or raise a family with that money. We had lots of disposable income, which we used differently. But I say that's a stereotype because we now know there were and are a significant number of LGBT parents. They weren't quite as prominent or visible back then, but today there's a large number. We don't just fit that "DINK" stereotype that travel companies like to tap into, inviting us to party at Pride in Amsterdam or Montreal. That's always more of the stereotype, but the reality is, we're just, we're not that much different than all the rest of the folks. We just spend more money on things that are not necessarily always family-oriented.
Shifting Corporate Engagement and Future Outlook
Seasons of Pride: And so the messaging worked. If you went to any Pride event five years ago, every corporate player in the world was there, right? And then fast forward, they're not there anymore. So what does that mean? Do we have less buying power? Obviously not. So, why did this get... sorry, really sort of bad pun there. But like, why did that messaging all of a sudden just disappear? And, you know, these corporate partners who claim to be partners have now moved on?
Matt Skallerud: Yeah. You know, the reality is it even got tough. This isn't a direct answer to your question, but it got tough even as, you know, once COVID kicked in. So once COVID started, that already kind of opened up the floodgates of a lot of organizations, especially Pride organizations and so forth, having to do a lot more, or not do a lot more, but try to pivot and do something to still stay relevant with a lot less money. Because all of a sudden, a lot of the companies just kind of, everything just kind of went from there and went down across the board, not just LGBT.
But then things were recovering, things were getting better. And we had hope that, you know, maybe we'd kind of pull out from that. Because it wasn't just events, it was also LGBT media and marketing firms, and some of the nonprofits, everybody was trying to get by with less. And then the whole thing that happened with Anheuser-Busch in 2023, with Dylan Mulvaney, and, you know, they bring on this influencer to help them kind of tap into a new market, so to speak. And they got, and they didn't respond to that well. So at the end of the day, they ended up getting boycotted by the right, and then they got boycotted by the left. And that double boycott concept was kind of new for folks. And companies were looking at that going, what's going on?
And then Target had almost the same thing, where they got pushback on what they were doing during Pride. They kind of pulled back and said, "Oh, you know, for the safety of our store employees, we're going to allow some of our private things." What ended up happening is they just kind of, again, double boycott. So you have two of those happening back to back. And a lot of companies said, "Oh, maybe we should take a back seat and just sort of let this settle out before we jump back in." And so a lot of money went away. A lot of companies quietly tried to back off from some of their commitments and so forth and just their overall support that they've given over the years.
And then, of course, when Trump got elected in 2024, that was the nail in the coffin. And now the whole concept as far as this war on DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) and so forth has just made it so a lot of companies are just like, "I'm just going to wait this out." And so the tides have turned, and we are not on the receiving end when it comes to companies wishing to really promote themselves to our community more because they're afraid.
Seasons of Pride: But is this an opportunity? I mean, the way that I sort of look at this is, you know, you get to find out who your friends are.
Matt Skallerud: Yeah, you do. And in all disruptions, there's always opportunity. It's hard to say that with a smile on my face as of today, because over the last few days, everything happening in LA and so forth, it's just like, those are major disruptions, and we're in the middle of living history as we speak. But there's a really good article today. It may have come out yesterday, but I read it today. And it was based on the idea that small business has kind of stepped up to the plate to make up for some of the shortfall of the brands, and the larger companies that have kind of pulled back. And this article kind of talked about World Pride, but they were also touching in Twin Cities Pride and other Pride festivals, and really showing that small business, LGBT, and otherwise, you know, just sometimes allies, that they were kind of filling in that vacuum and trying to help bring not just revenue, but also change that conversation. And so, you know, it gives me hope that, you know, maybe things have changed and that disruption maybe will make it so it's not as corporate moving forward in the future, and time will tell.
Seasons of Pride: I mean, it's been kind of interesting to watch because despite all the negative, we've seen a lot of little positive things, right? Or positive things. You know, we've seen cities that have never hosted Pride, host Pride for the first time. You know, we've seen places like Salt Lake City do, you know, the flags in the crosswalks. So, you know, there definitely seems to be, you know, some counter-measuring to, you know, the national dialogue, right? Especially on the local level.
Matt Skallerud: Yeah, and that's the thing is that you can't always predict where the pushback and the resistance. And people like to talk about a pendulum swinging, but we're not in the pendulum swing right now. Right now, I mean, if we're looking, if it's a pendulum swing conversation, it's more big picture and it's now, you know, we know where it's at, and we're not on the receiving end of where that's at. But all the little things that happen in this environment are the ones that I think we're going to pay much closer attention to. And not only that, we'll probably help redefine, because some people talk about going back to normal. But I think we all know that, especially after COVID and now where we're at today, we're not going back to what was. And so we're going to evolve into something that will be. And we don't know what that looks like yet. But I think some of this pushback in response to what has been happening is helping to start defining what that may look like five years from now.
Divisions Within the Community and the Power of Niche
Seasons of Pride: And I'm going to raise something that's a little controversial, but you can handle it. So there's fractions within the community that are looking to throw the "T" under the bus. What's your response to that?
Matt Skallerud: Well, I think even stepping back and saying five years from now, what we look like as far as not only a community, but what we're doing and how we're a part of the greater world. There are a few myths in that whole concept as far as, especially when we were quantifying us as dinks and all this spending power, it made us look like we were much more uniform than we really were. The first controversial thing, without even talking about transgender people, is that, number one, gays and lesbians are not the same marketplace. And by default, even though it's great politically and at Pride festivals that we are together, and we will always be together, by definition, though, we also are very different and live very separate lives. In many ways, we attend different events and so forth.
And so when you look at it that way, and then you start realizing that within that context, even within the gay community, we're finding out that there's a lot, especially go on some of the apps, the hookup apps, more than anything else, you realize a lot of gay men, they don't care about politics, they're not liberal, and they're not, you know, some of them, of course, are MAGA right-wing supporters, and there's a decent percentage of them, you know, not a majority, but there's much more than what we ever thought existed. And then the political correctness of some of those folks when they put a profile up that says, you know, "no Asians, no femmes," that tells you a lot. I mean, those little things, and they get called out for that. And there are articles that really try to go in and attack and say that that's not okay, but that's what's going on. So if you're tackling the political incorrectness of this entire conversation, you're looking at it and realizing, we don't really have very many conversations about all that.
And then when you look at the transgender community, that's like a whole other thing, because you have the gay community, you have lesbians, you have bisexuals, and then, and you have these other parts of the Q and the A alphabet. But transgenders have been on their own. And even though they're included in a lot of conferences, Pride festivals, and so forth, they had to fight in a different way than we've had. And of course, now they're a target. The right wing realizes this and knows that it gets their base fired up. It knows that maybe the support from our end is not as strong as we thought it was. And so it's, again, in a historical time, we're finding out that, you know, we really, that they are kind of left out to dry on their own, and it's up to us to really try to be able to make sure that they're not abandoned.
Seasons of Pride: You know, it kind of reminds me, like, I lived in New York in, you know, late 80s, 90s. And I remember going to ACT UP meetings. Yeah. And, you know, the only thing you did in an ACT UP meeting was argue against everybody else at the ACT UP meeting, because there were so many different agendas. Yeah. And what was important to you wasn't important, it was as important to the next person, because they had a different perspective, they had a different, you know, ideology, those types of things. But like, nothing ever got done. Because there were so many fractions within trying to operate as a single group. And it didn't work. Yeah, it just didn't move forward, because there were too many competing interests.
Matt Skallerud: Well, especially in today's world, where, you know, we are much more a part of society on a very visible level than we were 10, 20, 30 years ago. And what that says or what that tells us is that we're just, Will & Grace showed it 20 years ago and they showed we're just as dysfunctional and boring as the next folks that are there. And so the whole concept of being gay or being lesbian, it's not that exciting for people anymore. It's not that big of a differentiator. And so being part of, you know, the rest of society more and more, even regardless of some of the pushback and the things that we see that try to make us feel look like we're divided. In general, you find that people really don't care that much about a lot of the issues that the right wing likes to put out there to say that they want to put those out there as kind of dividing or divisive topics. And a lot of folks I don't think are really responding to that as well. And so, you know, that's the upside. And the downside is that makes us less unique and not quite as exciting as we used to be.
Seasons of Pride: Not as fabulous, right? Less fabulous, yeah.
Matt Skallerud: So, you know, are we talking about a permanent shift or do you think this is temporary?
Seasons of Pride: And, you know, like you said, five years and it will be looking back and say, "I wonder what the fuss was about."
Matt Skallerud: I think it's going to continue in that direction, especially when you look at other parts of the world that are, you know, and let's just say the Western world, whether we're talking about Europe or Australia and a lot of the places that are that are very similar to us in terms of social issues and so forth. And in many ways they're similar to us, but they're further ahead. And so when you see the way Europe as a whole is progressing, and then you see like what happens in Australia and so forth, you realize that it's not that there's no turning back. It's that we've kind of gone, we've just kind of gone past a lot of that where I don't think that there'd be any reason for people to be able to want to turn back.
And perhaps a lot of it is, you know, the technology and social media and so forth. Of those things, they make it so that we know, we know, we know each other, other people, or let's just say what, you know, in human speak, the other, those other people that are someone else, it's not us. Well, there's a lot less mystery about those people anymore. And so in all aspects, whether it's racial, whether it's people living in a different country, or sexuality. And so when it comes to that, I think people are much more familiar with not only who we are, but how what we have to say and vice versa. And so the good of that is, is that it makes us feel more connected. The bad of it is, is that it also allows crazy voices to interject and bring us to where we're at today.
Seasons of Pride: Yeah. I mean, I think digitally, you know, there's this ability to finally find your tribe, right? You know, whatever your thing is, and it can be very specific, you know, you can now go find it and it's out there and it's available. Um, where, you know, back in the day you, you stood in a bar and hoped that the other you know, aligned with you somehow. Exactly. You know, and then, you know, after a few moments of conversation with this hopeful person, you realize, "oh my God, this is not the person," right? But I think digitally, we have some of that ability to sort of find our tribe, which is, you know, a cool thing. So, you know, looking at your business and looking at your clients, like, how do they move forward from here?
Matt Skallerud: Yeah, well, yeah, right now we just have hope. And because, you know, we're, we still have a client base that keeps us busy, but it's, it's much more of the small business and mid-sized businesses that are there. And so the larger companies that used to work with us, you know, this, the brands that would want to hire us for Pride, during Pride Month, and all the activity that'd be happening right now, a lot of that, or I would really say most of that is dried up for not just us, but for most of our peers out there as well. And so I just have to believe and hope that when the pendulum does swing in a different direction, whether that's five, 10 years from now, and I put that timeframe out there, because it's not going to happen overnight and it's not going to be next year. And so over the next few years, as it starts to come back, I think there's going to be a different way of looking at some of this, but I think a lot of those folks will start to, not just the idea of coming back, but that there will be new technologies and new opportunities and society will have continued to evolve in a way that it'll just be a natural for them to and snap back into whatever we're doing at that time.
Seasons of Pride: Just hopefully I'm still doing it. And do you think it'd be more niche? Like I said, these digital places that are very specific, do we go after niches or is it global or what's your sense of that?
Matt Skallerud: I think the niche will always be the opportunity. The niche is, and so you can't really, especially when it comes to, back in the day when you would create a website, you're speaking to people or speaking and you're publishing things at them. But where we're at today is that people are speaking with each other. And so that makes it even more appropriate that when you have a community of, before you would say, "oh, look, I can finally reach other people that are interested in gay sports or gay travel." And you'd think that was great. But now you can be highly connected and engaged with and know what other people are thinking when it comes to, let's just say, gay rugby. Or gay-specific. So it's become much, much more like that. And you see that, and that's really reflected through, I mean, I didn't know about how strong gay rugby was or some of the other LGBT sports organizations, but you see it through.
Seasons of Pride: So we've had SFFAGA here for a long time, so we've been up on that one.
Matt Skallerud: But you see it, you see it on social media and you see, and you see how not only that they're there, but that they're engaged with each other and that there's this whole community and that you're able to see it and be a part of it if you choose to be. And so that is just a massive change in terms of how people were able to connect who did live in a very urban, dense environment. So I think the world does get better, even though it seems crazy right now.
The Enduring Success of RuPaul's Drag Race
Seasons of Pride: So let's end on a fun note. So what I think seems to be all counterintuitive to everything we're seeing is the continued success of Drag Race. Oh, yeah. You know, so can you explain that? Because I mean, you would think like, I mean, there's the bans on the trend on the drag queens. There's been pushback. And despite all of that, there's no shortage of RuPaul content. Yeah, which is interesting.
Matt Skallerud: And, you know, maybe I'm a better person to answer that. And also it ties into what I was saying before. And the reason I say better is because I don't really watch that show. It doesn't, it doesn't interest me. But that doesn't, but we won't hold that against you. I know, I know, people want to take my gay card away all the time. Exactly. But that doesn't, but that actually doesn't mean anything. What that does is it speaks to the idea that I was saying that, you know, like, you know, I love watching the History Channel and the National Geographic Channel. And, you know, but that's, that's, that's me. But there's so many of us in the LGBT community that have such wide interests.
But that's also showing that regardless of what we're seeing, as far as whether it's pushback or pushback in the politically on a trans, on the transgender community, the world is still moving along in a direction of, whether we want to just say acceptance, you know, I would say the aspect of us, you and I being gay or someone they're meeting, you know, a lesbian couple, that's boring now. But when you see what goes on in RuPaul's Drag Race, that's not boring. That's catty, it's crazy, it's exciting. It's got so much that appeals to people way outside of our community. And it's very global. So now you've got RuPaul's Drag Race in the Philippines, which is really hot. I think Holland, you see them all over the place.
Seasons of Pride: Everywhere, she's got a franchise everywhere.
Matt Skallerud: Oh my God, and they're very successful and they really are able to tap into, they also tap into that local community as far as, if you're in Holland or you're in France and you're in the drag community, you've got this whole new lease on life in terms of being able to reach an entirely new group of people. So I think it really speaks to everything that we've talked about so far, that although we see it one way, that show just proves to us that society is going in a different direction. They're proving it out through RuPaul's Drag Race, regardless of what I think of it.
Seasons of Pride: Well, that seems like a really great sort of note to end on. So Matt, we want to appreciate you for your time and all the work that you've done in the community over the years. Where can people learn more about you and your services and things like that?
Matt Skallerud: Yeah. It's all at pinkmedia.lgbt. And from there, they could find us online and all of our social media and everything. So I look forward to connecting with anybody if they have any further questions.
Seasons of Pride: Matt, thank you very much. And we look forward to reconnecting again in the near future.
Matt Skallerud: Sounds good. Thanks again. Take care.
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